Hussain Alfardan: On a lifetime with natural pearls

Show notes

In this episode of Hidden Gems, Michael Krzemnicki and Laurent Cartier meet Mr. Alfardan at GemGenève, where they speak with him about a lifetime's relationship with natural pearls. Mr. Alfardan grew up surrounded by pearls in Qatar, where his father — known as "the surgeon of the pearl" for his skill at peeling — was one of the most respected experts in the Gulf. The conversation traces the rise and fall of the Gulf pearling economy, from the wealthy years that supplied the world with natural pearls, to the collapse triggered by Mikimoto's cultured pearls, the two World Wars, and Indian independence in 1947, when one of the trade's most important markets effectively closed. Oil arrived just in time to transform the region — and Mr. Alfardan's family business diversified into trading, real estate, cars and jewellery — but he kept collecting pearls as a private passion that, over decades, grew into one of the most important natural pearl collections in the world. Mr. Alfardan and his hosts discuss what makes a beautiful natural pearl — colour, lustre, shape, weight — and why no two are alike. He reflects on the long quiet decades when natural pearls were forgotten and prices collapsed, when he kept buying at auctions in London, Geneva and New York "because nobody else was buying," and on the renewed global appetite of recent years that has seen the great Maisons — Cartier, Harry Winston, Tiffany, Boucheron — return to natural pearls. He shares the story behind acquiring a historic pearl known as "Hope," and a Bulgari necklace once made for Empress Soraya of Iran that he now regrets selling. Mr. Alfardan also reflects on the lost craft of pearl peeling — his father's specialty — now almost extinct, the role of science and gemmological testing in protecting clients, and the intuition built over a lifetime that lets him spot a natural pearl across a room. The conversation closes with Mr. Alfardan reflecting on the divers, sailors and craftsmen who built the Gulf pearling economy, the heritage he has worked to revive in Qatar, and the personal bond he keeps with his pearls — pieces he sometimes simply sits with, talks to, and admires for the beauty of what nature has made.

About the guest Hussain Alfardan is a Qatari businessman, collector, and chairman of the Alfardan Group. Born into a family whose pearling roots go back generations, Mr. Alfardan has spent more than seventy years collecting natural pearls and is widely credited with helping to revive global appreciation for them. His private collection in Doha is regarded as one of the most important natural pearl collections in the world, and a reference for researchers and the major jewellery houses alike.

Books: Natural Pearls, a Timeless Legacy: The Alfardan Collection

Credits Hosted by Laurent Cartier (SSEF) with Michael Krzemnicki (SSEF). Produced by Martin Herzog. Intro music composed by MMYYLO. A podcast by SSEF — the Swiss Gemmological Institute.

Transcript

Hussain Alfardan: The pearl means a lot to me as part of our family's tradition. Believe me, sometimes I talk to them. When I'm happy, I see good pearls. I sit and talk and enjoy my time with it and see the beauty of what God made for us.

Show Opener: SSEF presents the Hidden Gem Podcast, conversations with the world's leading people behind the journey of gems and jewels, from the source to the finished piece.

Laurent Cartier: Today on Hidden Gems, Michael Krzemnicki and I speak with Hussain Alfardan, one of the most influential collectors of natural pearls in the world. We met during the GemGenève trade show, so you may hear a little background sound around us. Mr. Alfardan grew up with pearls as part of life in the Gulf, a tradition that shaped families, livelihoods, and an entire region before oil was discovered. Over decades, he continued collecting through the lows, built one of the world's most important collections. And helped bring natural pearls back into global focus. We talk about rarity, patience, and the personal bond he has with pearls, and why for him, a natural pearl remains something truly made by nature.

Michael: It's a great great pleasure to have this moment with you, Mr. Alfardan. It's a great also honour. And I thought we'd take our time to talk a bit about our fascination because your fascination about pearls, me, also Laurent, we are all fascinated. And we want to learn a bit more and to hear also about your fascinations and how you came also to love pearls.

Hussain Alfardan: You know, first of all, I'm very happy with my relation with you. Long time we are together and you are taking care of all of our requirements. The pearl for me is part of my life. I lived with it since I was a child because our business in the pearl generations, grandfather to father and father and all the economy of the Gulf was depending on the pearling in the past, before the oil come. And it was a very wealthy area, supplying the whole world with the natural pearl. So I opened my eyes on that business. But many things happened. The market collapsed, people has problem, bankrupt for a while. It started with Mikimoto. Everybody thought the cultured pearl will replace the natural. Of course, after long, everybody recognised that the natural is natural and the cultured is cultured. Then the Second World War effect on it. Second and the first war and the second war also collapsed but was the market open for us still we are breathing. Business has gone down but was very good and we made selling to India when India took over (independence) in 1947 that was the end of the market in that area luckily we got the oil. Now you want to ask me how you… deal with the pearl. I saw experts, like my father, one of the famous in pearling, he's the first one, a surgeon of the pearl they called him because he peeled the pearl and he knows what is the kind of the pearl and he knows how to separate the pearls, and he knows to get the pearl in the right shape.

Michael: And these were pearls coming from Qatar, actually?

Hussain Alfardan: Yes, but rarely you find someone with that experience. I lived with that experience. I picked up from a lot. But the market has gone, no market for the pearl. For a while, we stopped because we have the oil. We converted our business in many activities. We converted our business in many activities. We went to trading. We went under cereal. We went into car business. We went into real estate, and many things. But I kept my relation with the pearl as a hobby. And slowly, slowly, grown up, it became a big business.

Michael: But you told also about when you were actually a child already, you got in touch with pearls, your father and grandfather. So you had kind of the chance to touch pearls to sort pearls and get the beauty.

Hussain Alfardan: Exactly, exactly. And I teach people to help me in assorting, because right now in this age, I need somebody who's expert. But not easy to find, but still I'm involved. In assorting, in finding the sizes, the quality, the colour, the shape of the thing. And for me, it's part of my life now. I had the biggest museum of the national pearl in the world. And the best, the biggest collection of natural pearls in the world in Doha. Near to my office, it is open for people whom I want them to see and value what I have. I hope one day you come and see it.

Michael: Definitely I will do.

Hussain Alfardan: So the pearl means a lot to me as part of our family's tradition. That's why you see me always with the pearl since we know each other. Now my son has taken over for all the business. Ali is in charge of the jewellery. He talks to you about emerald, ruby and sapphire and diamond and anything. We've grown up in the jewellery, grown up. We are representing a lot of international companies in the jewellery, in the watches. But the pearl is my means. It's my baby, which I take care of all the time. I've grown up the baby, but still I treat that as a baby.

Michael: Keeps you young. But that's good. I mean, I'm always seeing also this kind of, you know, trying to create the perfect necklace. You know, you buy pearls, maybe even necklaces, You take out some pearls, you rearrange them. I think it has to be a great pleasure to do so.

Hussain Alfardan: I separate the pearl, you know, I find many kind, many colour and one necklace is the mixture. I assort, I take the number one, number two, number three and try to put them to not easy things. Especially when you want to graduate or you want to make a necklace take a long time to find a piece here. It's not like diamond or other stone you cut the way you want.

Michael: But this is work you do, you still like to do.

Hussain Alfardan: So what I do, I have to get it from everywhere, buy, collect, and then I sort, try to match the colour, try the match the quality, the lustre, try many things. So this is not an easy job to do, being an expert. Well, I don't want to say too much about myself, but I am one of the experts in the market. There are a lot in the market, European, there are a lot, American, there a lot. Indian there are a lot.

Michael: I mean, with your heritage and background coming from a producing country of course and family history behind all this.

Hussain Alfardan: Our family and our relatives are all in the pearl.

Michael: So there was like a fleet of ships going out and divers.

Hussain Alfardan: Yes, we have divers. We have carpenters who build boats. We have sailors. We have captains in our family. We have agriculture in our country, farmers. And our family is a big family. It has got many activities and different kinds.

Michael: But I mean, this is like in the past. Nowadays, there is…

Hussain Alfardan: No, the things change completely. All our boys, all our children have been well-educated. They took big positions in everywhere, all the Gulf. Things change completely. They don't look at it. I am very proud. I have educated the whole world about the national pearl. When I came to the market, in Europe especially, I go to the auction. There is no competition for me. I bet the way I buy everything. In London, in Geneva, in New York and everywhere. A lot they come and buy it all. But what to do with it? People doesn't know anything about natural or cultured.

Laurent: So I'm wondering, what makes a beautiful natural pearl? Every natural pearl seems to be unique, different. This is also perhaps different to diamonds or cultured pearls. You're not necessarily seeking perfection. I'm wondering, can you explain to us a little bit more about how you examine pearls, what they show you, what they tell you? What is a beautiful natural pearl?

Hussain Alfardan: I'll tell you an example. Now you are looking, let us say looking to the diamond. How many kinds of diamonds are there? What I teach them, different kind of, different colour, different lustre. The pearl is like that, but I want to tell you how the pearl become famous now. Because it has skipped its price. It went down badly to the earth. And then when new came to sell, I'm sorry to say that, but that is the cultured, which you would think is replacing the natural pearl. No value for it. The natural pearl, there was one is around the whole world searching for it, who's searching for the art, and buying, and the price going up and up and up, and people recognise that the natural pearl is there even more valuable than the diamond or emerald or whatsoever today. Because people came back and know that the pearl is not man-made, it's God-made.

Michael: But this is maybe quite an important question because, you know, you have like a history also looking back and then looking forward also how to fascinate young generation into natural pearls. I'm not just talking about pearls but natural pearls, this is an important task.

Hussain Alfardan: This is what I see. I have done it locally, I have did it in the region, I've done it everywhere. Now, the biggest companies, I want to say it and I'm proud, is running after national pearl because the people well-educated, they know the national pearl, are running to buy. Many big names in the jewellery now looking after the pearl.

Michael: But this is actually, it's like the term you say, education is key. And like a museum, exhibition, a book you have with your collection of pearls, so that's absolutely key.

Hussain Alfardan: My book, which I made, I gave you a copy. This is a lot of universities are teaching their students from that history. In the meantime, the new generation become to know and they are proud to own one pearl. I've managed to get the people patiently. And when I go everywhere, as you are now talking to me and I'm telling you what it is, and I am sure you will know that the natural pearl will remain as you have your own laboratory and you can say what it is, you can value it. Now, the expert with you, they tell me this is seeded. Seeded by what? By natural pearl, small pearl, seeded pearl. But all the layers are natural, but no value for it. As a client, when you tell them this is manmade, no, I want the natural. As a diamond, there is a lab diamond today. Looks the same. See the difference between the prices.

Michael: I mean, that's probably also our standing and role in the trade. I mean we see partly cultural, we see all, except for natural. And that's also our fascination with this material. That's true.

Hussain Alfardan: That's what I, to me always, I look, call on you. I get demand from everywhere in the world for big pieces. And that's why I want to make sure. I will tell you something else behind that. I make sure that really I'm giving the natural pearl for my client. Many pieces return back to me. Tested by SSEF, become cultured. You remember lately? Some of them I went, I took my money. Some of them, I forgot. Improved your testing. Improved every now and then, improved and improved. Now we cannot make mistakes.

Michael: This is science.

Hussain Alfardan: That's why I want my client to be sure that he's taking the right piece as the diamond when you test it and give the right indication about it or the emerald or whatever the stone is.

Laurent: And why do you think natural pearls are so rare? I mean, when your father taught natural pearls to you, what was in Qatar, what was the thinking back then of how pearls formed, or why an oyster formed a pearl ?

Hussain Alfardan: I didn't understand your question.

Laurent: I'm saying, why do you think oysters form natural pearls? Is there a story from also your father, your grandfather, of why in so many oysters, only very few produce natural pearls. It seems to be like a miracle of.

Hussain Alfardan: It is for me. I tell you, my group of companies is the biggest in Qatar and in the Gulf. My business in the pearl is nothing, small piece, maybe 5% of my business. But this one lived with me, it's part of me, sometimes I talk to them. When I'm happy I see good pearls, I sit and talk and enjoy my time with it. And see the beauty of what God made for us. That make me to be linked with the pearl and stay with it and enjoy my life and make business. But I'm proud I managed to educate the whole world that the pearl is there. Today in this one (trade show in Geneva), I could not buy anything. The price is shooted.

Hussain Alfardan: Why? Because all the big companies, now you would see from Cartier, you would see from Harry Winston, you will see from Tiffany, everybody is sending for testing. And there is a big demand for it. With the big families, with the people like to own. It's a big problem for me because prices have gone up. But the other way, I have the biggest collection. I gain a lot.

Michael: When you talk about pearls, apart from that this is developing as a business, there is still some kind of a magic behind it. How does a pearl form? I mean, at some point, there is scientific answers. But I think there might be also some traditional ideas in Qatar or in the Middle East. How is a pearl, why pearls form, why this beauty comes out of shells. Is there like a tradition? Or myths coming from the Middle East and Qatar.

Hussain Alfardan: I tell you, and we have sayings in the past with the people, the dealer of the pearl, they say the dealer of the pearls is up and down, has to be very patient. Has to be rubber heart, not a human heart. The attack will come, price will go down. You have to be patient. If you can afford, don't sell. I have a friend here in Geneva, they have pearl since 10 years. He doesn't want to sell. Every time I go to him, he doesn't want to sell he's asking too much. He says, because of I feel this is the value of it. I say, you are asking six or seven times of the market value. He said, this is my price. Every time he showed to me, now 10 or 12 years, he has got many pieces tested by SSEF.

Michael: Each time he has the same price or it goes up?

Hussain Alfardan: It's happy, but the price is over. Over by far. Over, by far. This is what I say. The pearl has come up, and the demand will increase. And the people recognise that the natural pearl is one of the stones which can keep price. And who sold, regretted. A lot of families sold them. I have a historical piece. I paid for a family from Britain, $11 million for a small piece, dollar. 11 million. I paid for another one a pearl is known as Hope. I paid 20 million dollars for one pearl. That's the historical value because it belonged to someone.

Hussain Alfardan: Why keep them both? Why it give this price that one. And one day, maybe 500,000, nobody will buy it. Price has come up. People recognise the value of the pearl, recognise that it will remain forever.

Laurent: And I imagine that when you first started with pearls, it was mostly pearls from the Gulf. This is probably what you learned and saw from your father, but then over the last few decades, so much other natural pearls came into it, and it became a much more international industry. How do you feel about Mexican pearls, conch pearls, Melo pearls? We are always amazed in the lab also, not just to see white pearls, but to see pearls from so many different species. And there's also this beautiful book by Hubert Bari with many pieces from your collection in there. How do you feel about all these different species, do you have a favourite?

Hussain Alfardan: For the natural, you mean? Yes, for the natural. My feeling, natural pearl will not remain as it is with the price today, which is top, top. It will go up, because the rare become more. The stones which you are getting, the good ones, the blue, the diamond or, green diamond, it's rare to find and very little bit. Now, the best pearl will be the same. And it is the same now. I look to the market what will be. I looked at it. All over the jewellers, looking as they are looking for the other stone.

Laurent: But do you have a favourite natural pearl? Is there one natural pearl or one colour that you like?

Hussain Alfardan: Many. When you come to my museum, you will be surprised to see many pieces, unusual. And many companies, big companies, I don't want to name companies, but they come there. They sit there and they buy from me. Now they will be surprised when the next one they come, maybe in a month from today. I will double the price.

Michael: Still doing good business!

Hussain Alfardan: Why I sell it when I cannot get it with the double price?

Michael: Yeah, you do like the Geneva person you mentioned, huh? Yeah, yeah. Just six times.

Hussain Alfardan: I went to all of my friends here, their prices is ridiculous, I said why, what happens? Maybe I didn't buy much this time.

Michael: Maybe I'll say something which would be interesting. I mean, looking back again, I was in Qatar. I mean I came to your place, it was so nice, but it's a very modern city, I mean the skyline, but when you maybe reflect on your child's days, I think Qatar was quite a different place. So maybe you can explain a bit from from your youth how this was living in Qatar at the time.

Hussain Alfardan: I didn't understand your question.

Michael: How was Qatar, let's say in the 1950s?

Hussain Alfardan: If you want to compare what Qatar was, it was a village, but it's grown up because God gave us the wealth and the oil, but we are linked to our roots, we are sailors, we are divers, we're traders in the pearl, our country people from everywhere they come.

Michael: Did you dive yourself?

Hussain Alfardan: No, no, no. You know, the diver. The diver, let me tell you how the diving. The diving in the past, everybody who goes on the boat is a partner. There is no salary. Sailor, diver, puller, and other on the board. The captain and the owner of the boat has a share. And the diver has the share, the biggest share, after the captain and owner. And the puller has got a pair. Other boys working also have differences. This is the divide. They have to work hard to make money. This is the story of the world. But you see, from where did they come? They were the people of the country. And the past, and the past centuries, really. They used to be slaves, slavery. They bring slavers, and they bring people from the market. They die, and the live with it. That's why the slaves, when they come to our country, they are lucky. We treat them a humanity, like ourself, be part of our family, part of children. And they meet today, that slave they are in paradise, because all of them took big positions. They are very wealthy. All their families. There is no slavery. There is human being. And they mix with the family, they married, and they become ministries, and they become ambassadors, and they become many. That was work hard, like me, like my diver, my other one. They deserve to be part of our country people. That people they work hard for us and we make our life easy. And the sailors are, and the human being also the same. They take the same, slave and the others. They take the same share.

Laurent: And so in your experience from the boats, how many shells do you need to open to get an actual pearl?

Hussain Alfardan: How many what?

Laurent: How many shells? How many oysters do you to open?

Hussain Alfardan: If you are lucky at 20% you will find pearl, from the 20% maybe you get 2-3% good one. The rest are different kind, a baroque, small baroque big baroque and near to the round and different shape, but to get a genuine one 2- 3% maximum, if you are lucky 5%. In 1000 you get maybe 50, as good pearl.

Laurent: And the captain and the sailors need to also go know where to look, right? The oyster beds.

Hussain Alfardan: They know their work. They know the location, they know the locations, all well-known. On the charts now, it's easy to go. I have divers now, and by themselves, they took it as a hobby. They bring from Kuwait, I buy every year. I buy a lot from them. But I don't get the big ones, which I'm looking for, all small ones. Good ones, and different kind. But still, the pearl is there, in that location.

Laurent: But luckily, there's also old pearls in the market that you can buy, right?

Hussain Alfardan: Mostly the old pearl, as I came now from the auction of Phillips, has got some pearls, belongs to families.

Hussain Alfardan: They are lucky these families that prices have gone up so much. They will get more, three, four times more than what they paid. Natural pearl will remain. I'm happy, I say I have put in my thumb on the world that I educated the people to recognise what the natural pearl is. And they value it and they will be in their mind forever.

Laurent: But the value is one thing in that people see, but what do you say to people who don't understand the beauty of natural pearls? How would you, what would you tell them? What fascinates you about natural pearls, what is the beauty, aside from the rarity?

Hussain Alfardan: You're right, you're right the beauty when I see Tiffany, when I see Cartier, when I see Boucheron when I see other people. The advertising the girl wearing one pearl paid to Elizabeth Taylor with 12 million dollar. A pearl.

Laurent: One pearl, La Peregrina.

Hussain Alfardan: And now they came back and see that our talent of the national pearl in our region. We do it. As things are changing, you do as what we're doing now. Introduce it to the market in a nice way. Now with the media, always you see about it in our country, Alfardan what's offering to the people. As example, one client of ours, bought the pearl. He was behind it. And after a few years, she took it to place to check. They told her this is cultured pearl, which is a natural pearl, because he doesn't know. She brought it to me. I said, if it's natural pearl this one. Could have been two million. And she paid $140 on it. How many dollars? About $30, $35, $30-$35,000. $35? No, let's say $30. $35. $35 thousand, which is two million, so you want it, and it has certificate. It has SSEF certificate also. Who knows about it, but expert knows it. I replaced it for her with one better (pearl). I took from her more money. And I gave her all the specials. If you have doubt, this is the value not in the pearl, the value in the jewellery, in the diamond. But it was a bluff piece. It's a natural, it's a bluff piece. But if you want to buy something really gem, you have to pay for it like I love stone.

Michael: This is something which, for me, is interesting because, you know, we test pearls, so we have lots of, say, analytics, analytical methods to see whether it's a freshwater, natural or cultured pearl, whether it is a saltwater, cultured pearl or natural pearl. But I guess you have, when you look at an item, which you see maybe even at the show, you have a feeling it's maybe not always correct, but to kind of recognise a cultured pearl or chinese freshwater pearl for sure, but on what are you looking for?

Hussain Alfardan: I'll tell you one story yesterday happened. You know Michel Farah. I went to see him in the booth here. Ali saw in the window some pearl. He said, this is cultured pearl. Ali brought it to me. I looked at it. He said this is cheap, cultured. I look at it, I said, it is natural pearl. 99, I said 90, let's say it's 90 percent. You have 10 percent. He said I didn't take it for testing because SSEF will charge me $1,000 for it. That's yesterday. I said this is natural. Baroque, natural. But sculpture will never be like this, or this, like this. Not only that, I have feeling. I go to the boutiques sometime in the market, I did what I could. I go inside, give me this, give me that, give this, three, four, five. I went in Munich once, I got a lot, I took them all.

Michael: Of people who don't know the material.

Hussain Alfardan: I feel it, I have a feeling.

Michael: Exactly.

Hussain Alfardan: I have feeling. And most of the time, I'm right. I look at it, I look the colour, I look at the thing. Yesterday, a few days ago, in my collection. I picked two pearls. I say, where came these two from? This is cultured, my feeling. Also the weight, you feel it. When I put on a small pearl, I feel it, it is not natural. That's my heart telling me also, this is natural or not. He has got a certificate, one is SSEF and another one, saying this is a natural pearl. Yesterday, I have experience in looking to the pearl, and then I can say what it is. But sometimes I make a mistake. Could happen.

Michael: But I mean, you look, you don't take a loupe, or you take a loupe?

Hussain Alfardan: No, I said without touching the loupe. Rarely, if I want to see the piece and it has got some crack or something, or it ends, I use the loupe. I don't carry the loupe, he carry it and he give it to me. When I want to see something.

Michael: But the normal approach is just looking, touching, seeing.

Hussain Alfardan: Sometimes in these places, I put them aside, as I have doubt this is not real.

Michael: This is something which is similar even for us as a gemologist. I mean, we go through a procedure, but when we see pearls, for sure we have also, by experience, a look how we already guess and sometimes we are right, sometimes we might be surprised.

Hussain Alfardan: Exactly, exactly. It's the same. Same as you look for the other, as experts in the other stone. You have feeling. And sometimes one Swiss came to my booth and my jewellery shop in Doha. He said this is Kashmir, you know, this is Ceylon, this is whatever. They know. The expert in the stone. And they come to our exhibition, experts also, or some client they want to buy for royal family, they bring expert, telling what it is by looking at.

Laurent: And you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, peeling. How many good peelers are there left in the world?

Hussain Alfardan: There is no peeler in the market. The last one was, unfortunately, he passed away last month, and he was the last in the region peeling. And in Europe, there is a lady in Paris. She retired and all recovered, and she's shaking. She cannot feel. I don't see any peeler. The peeler has to take the layer. You see the layer, what it is? Before take the layer, she has to look into the pearl, what's next will be under. Maybe this phase is better than the other. And sometime you remove the layer you find a better, much better value to reduce the weight. What will give you better pearl? Price will go up. But no, in my knowledge, no peeler in the world today. And this is what I, I am stuck. There are for, for the cheap pearl I have expert. But their hands, not as the peeler of the best pearl. Best pearl you have to remove it. My father, he's number one in the world. He used to remove the layer carefully with a very sharp knife. And very soft sand paper. To remove it without touching the stone down, like a scratch or something. So he by stone, by stone and paper, soft one, he remove it, remove it carefully, and with sharp knife, upper he comes to, I look at it, I try it, but my hand it doesn't work well, my brother has done it. He could do that, but unfortunately he was 95 and…

Michael: It's not the brother, I think I met, was it the brother I met last year when I was visiting you who did quite a lot of photos also.

Hussain Alfardan: In where?

Michael: When I came to Geneva in summer.

Hussain Alfardan: Doha?

Michael: No in summer last year or the year before…

Hussain Alfardan: Oh, this is another brother, another brother. This is the undersecretary of Ministry of Agriculture. He's the under-secretary, but he retired that time. This is Ja'far, you saw him. This is the story of the pearl. If you get someone from the… By the way, my family, not everybody is interested in the pearl, I'm trying to pull Ali, I bring him to you to see him. But he, two years now, I bring him to buy with me here. At least he see how this market is going, how is the things, how he can recognise. I show him what is the dent (flaw), I show them the colour, I show him… The lustre is the most important. Now, there is two necklaces we show today, two the same size and the auctioneer valuing them the same. In my opinion, this is 10, this 50, the difference so far, but they are putting it the same price.

Michael: Yeah, they are not experts. They need you.

Hussain Alfardan: That's right.

Michael: And do you also buy from auction then?

Hussain Alfardan: Buy from the auction, of course.

Michael: From the show, like here, from the auction.

Hussain Alfardan: I buy from everywhere. But I'm slow now because I don't travel much. Sometimes my phone will call. I send somebody to check and to give me the weight of his important pieces. Or sometimes I share with some Swiss here in New York and London. I say, buy it to me with that price. I pay you commission, so on and so on. They do it, friends they are. He sometimes he say we buy it and we share it together.

Laurent: Just another question before we finish. I mean, you mentioned the natural pearl price was very low in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Did some people think you were crazy to continue collecting pearls? You must also have been very, very happy when the appreciation for natural pearls came back around 2000. What changed this? People began to appreciate. It's like forgotten in there.

Hussain Alfardan: Exactly. Forgotten and they want to sell and nobody buy. I tell you the auction in Geneva, when I come here alone, nobody buy, I buy. I don't sell because I don't have buyer even. Our country, they forgot the power.

Laurent: And so were some people saying you're crazy because you're buying all these pearls and you believed…

Hussain Alfardan: I believed in it, I lived with it, and I believe it will come up. And I opened the market in our country. I came to the mayor and we said, the governor, the ruler. I said the tradition thing is from the Gulf, it is the natural pearl. Why do you buy diamond only and think for your guest's gift? They accepted me and they buy. I started growing my business. I started buying from everywhere. Sellers become very happy. I bought so many beautiful pieces, historical pieces with a low price.

Laurent: Do you have one favourite pearl, a historic pearl, or you like this for me is really the most?

Hussain Alfardan: A lot, I have, I said so many, I don't want to sell, but I sold one necklace. It was made for Rayya, the first wife of king of Iran, Shah Iran, made by Bulgari. I paid 150,000 Swiss francs for it. I sold it 8 million Riyals. Today I'm regret. If I find it, I will buy it 20 million. That is the value of it, but nobody buy it. That's why everybody bankrupt in our region. Nobody buy it, they buy cultured, they look the same, and the people in trouble in Europe and all the world after the Second World War.

Laurent: And how were natural pearls worn traditionally in Qatar? Was it just women or also men like in India where some men wore natural pearls?

Hussain Alfardan: This is everything for the women, the women is killing us, everything, the beauty they want to have. These poor divers, they go down, they maybe die because they bring this treasure to make the ladies happy.

Laurent: So you have made many women happy in the world with the natural pearl.

Hussain Alfardan: Ladies, we are working hard for them to make them happy and see them smiling and enjoying our life with them. Without them we cannot live. We are all together partners. The beauty is beauty will remain and the natural pearl came back strong and I'm happy. I have done my best to help and bring it up. And all these people they know in the market.

Laurent: Thank you very much for your time and also for teaching us.

Hussain Alfardan: I mean you aren't talking too much. If I'm not busy I would have stayed longer with you and give you more.

Laurent: We will come to Doha and we will continue the next session.

Hussain Alfardan: You come to be my guest there, I'll put you in a boat with a diver. I will take you in my boat. I didn't take you on my boat, it's a dhow, it was a big dhow. I brought an Italian company, they decorated, they have so many rooms and it's beautiful, but the show is dhow. And we have, you can travel to it, the ocean, it is a big one. We'll get you somebody to take you to the place where they dive. And have lunch. Glass of wine and that's part of the world and enjoy the beauty of our country.

Michael: We look forward to this.

Hussain Alfardan: I would be very happy to see you there.

Michael: Thank you so much, really a great pleasure and I'm looking forward to coming to Qatar.

Laurent: Our guest was Hussain Alfardan: on natural pearls, heritage and the lifelong pursuit of something rare. That was another Hidden Gem by SSEF, the Swiss Gemological Institute. Thank you for listening.